Any recommendations internal speaker wire?

[LowOhms]

I used the 12gA wire Jeff recommended inside my 19's for the woofers only.
For the horns I used some smaller gauge silver plated Teflon jacketed Tektronix CRT HV wire I scored a reel of when I worked there. It's small gauge so I "drill twisted" (Gee, I thought I invented that....) three strands per lead. Nice and flexible and easy to insert into the push connectors on the 902's.

For the outside the box speaker wires I used his 12gA again drill twisted two wires per lead. Bought some cheap but decent gold plated spades soldered with some nice 2% silver solder. Also from Tek when the electronic industry went lead free.....so the solder was free!

Ok, so I previously had old Monster type cable from Home Depot that had begun to turn green inside from corrosion, so for me this was a need for new wires, so WTF.

I like the results very much.

FWIW, I have me designed and built PP300B interstage transformer coupled non feedback amps and they sound excellent. They don't measure very well. They kick ass.

GOOD, glad to hear that report. Thanks SSS.

I use just ONE single 16 AWG m22759/11 16 for each polarity, in the tweeter section of the crossover, and for a 57 1/8th inch run to my 802D. I'm GUESSING, you do NOT want to use three strands twisted per polarity, to your tweeter, unless super small, too much wire, will lose highs, IF your amp plays highs, ( and P-P can, is wider-band than MOST SETs. )

It is VERY important for the polarities of the wires NOT TO TOUCH, as they run from amp to crossover. If they touch each other, in ONE instance, it is a sonic degrade. They capacitively couple to each other, it screws up the highs, which comes right DOWN ( resultants ) into the mids and upper bass, degrading that range. Also, it adversely effects dynamic contrasting....all highly audible to me, A-Bing it, this past week !!

I hope when you say " 12 AWG to the woofer ", its TWO runs for each polarity, not just one. Try eliminating the stock ALTEC push to fit connectors, and solder directly to the drivers ( safely !!! ) ....nicer under hard drive.

Please, if you can, send me a decent schematic with voltages of your 300B P-P amp, I can make just one or two very SIMPLE power supply only suggestions for you to TRY, not very expensive!!, and you will like them I bet !!




Jeff ..... Low Ohms

[GM]

Right, the conductors should be chosen for the desired BW, voltage drop over distance and why bi-wiring is a good plan due to the wide range variance between a woofer, tweeter.

Spacing opposing conductors causes both inductive and shunt capacitive inductance with increasing spacing, so is acting as a frequency shaping filter. You may like how it sounds and a tweak sometimes worth experimenting with [remember the 'trellis'/'railroad track' system to space up/spread out the speaker wire runs?], but's it's technically degrading the signal.

GM

[LowOhms]

Right, the conductors should be chosen for the desired BW, voltage drop over distance and why bi-wiring is a good plan due to the wide range variance between a woofer, tweeter.

Spacing opposing conductors causes both inductive and shunt capacitive inductance with increasing spacing, so is acting as a frequency shaping filter. You may like how it sounds and a tweak sometimes worth experimenting with [remember the 'trellis'/'railroad track' system to space up/spread out the speaker wire runs?], but's it's technically degrading the signal.

GM

Ohh YES, I like how it sounds VERY much.

It is hard for me to imagine it being " technically degrading" the signal, but then, thankfully , that doesn't guide my choices. Everything sounds so much better, more realistic. better mids, nicer upper bass, less distortion, and better dynamics.

After initially me separating wires, amp to crossover, I next eliminated 6 inches of wire touching, from the output transformer secondary - to speaker terminals. It, also, got noticeably better - in the same precise areas and ways I mentioned above.

I have a musician friend, ( with a copy of your MLTLs / GPA 604s ) , trying this out next in Saint Louis. 'Am curious to hear his report...

but honestly, I am SURE of what it does, and the need to do this GM, in MY system, as configured !! Also, my audio mentor in Montana does this wire polarity separation, S.O.P.


Jeff....Low Ohms

[mah]

A considered view: AUDIOTECHNIEK - Cables and the Amplifier/Speaker Interface - OpusKlassiek

There is a good summary provided.



If you are experiencing crosstalk at your speakers the problem probably comes from your amp or its sources. Their is very little difference between speaker cables in this regard in domestic cable runs - see the above article.

Preliminary check: try different cables. If that doesn't solve the problem, here's a check method:


To check your speaker cables for crosstalk:


1. Note the position of the volume pot on your amp for your normal listening level. Turn the amp OFF.

2. Unhook cable A at the speaker and connect a resistor of similar value to the speaker, and ample rating, in its place.

3. Unhook cable B at the amp end and short the + and - wires together for SS amps or connect a 2 or 3 ohm resistor( 1 watt will do) across the + and - wires for tube amps.

4. Turn your amp ON. With music playing, and in steps, turn the volume knob up until you reach the previously noted position all the while listening to speaker B.

If the music is coming from speaker B then there is capacitive or magnetic coupling to the cables. Noticeable capacitive coupling of the speaker is very unlikely in domestic systems - see the article above. Move the cables around and see if their is any change. If there is, the problem is probably electromagnetic. Twisted wire is better in this regard.

Then repeat the above for B and A instead of A and B.

If you hear music then.

5. Connect your speakers with the shortest length cable that is feasible. If the noise remains it may well be that the amp input circuitry, or a source, is capacitively coupling to the amp output - refer to the above article.

Of course different cables can be substituted for a comparison with the existing cables. I think in the US that you can return purchased items so this would be a no-cost initial test. Unfortunately this is not so in some countries.

[LowOhms]

A considered view: AUDIOTECHNIEK - Cables and the Amplifier/Speaker Interface - OpusKlassiek

There is a good summary provided.



If you are experiencing crosstalk at your speakers the problem probably comes from your amp or its sources. Their is very little difference between speaker cables in this regard in domestic cable runs - see the above article.

Preliminary check: try different cables. If that doesn't solve the problem, here's a check method:


To check your speaker cables for crosstalk:


1. Note the position of the volume pot on your amp for your normal listening level. Turn the amp OFF.

2. Unhook cable A at the speaker and connect a resistor of similar value to the speaker, and ample rating, in its place.

3. Unhook cable B at the amp end and short the + and - wires together for SS amps or connect a 2 or 3 ohm resistor( 1 watt will do) across the + and - wires for tube amps.

4. Turn your amp ON. With music playing, and in steps, turn the volume knob up until you reach the previously noted position all the while listening to speaker B.

If the music is coming from speaker B then there is capacitive or magnetic coupling to the cables. Noticeable capacitive coupling of the speaker is very unlikely in domestic systems - see the article above. Move the cables around and see if their is any change. If there is, the problem is probably electromagnetic. Twisted wire is better in this regard.

Then repeat the above for B and A instead of A and B.

If you hear music then.

5. Connect your speakers with the shortest length cable that is feasible. If the noise remains it may well be that the amp input circuitry, or a source, is capacitively coupling to the amp output - refer to the above article.

Of course different cables can be substituted for a comparison with the existing cables. I think in the US that you can return purchased items so this would be a no-cost initial test. Unfortunately this is not so in some countries.

mah,

Just because a guy has an EE degree, is a professor, and has patents, and papers published, does NOT make him correct by definition in what he publishes !!

In fact, this guy is pretty sloppy in certain ways. Your own post, done with the intent of helping others, becomes a distaster, just like the other post where you " EE proved " there was no difference in AWG s needed, beyond a certain AWG, for crossover construction. LOL. What a sad joke.


This silly EE Professor, R.A. Greiner, reports sloppily and is in error. He discusses Robert Fulton, ( my first audio mentor ) and Robert's "Fulton Gold" speaker cable, and Greiner gets it ALL wrong.

Greiner says the following in writing ( and if its in writing, published, from an EE, it MUST be true )

" The third is a plastic-jacketed pair of 'welding size' conductor real welding cables. I believe - from Fulton. "

Robert was alive in 1984, Greiner could have called him and discovered what the cables really were, and how they came about!! I was Robert's Southern California Factory Representative, and I could have told EE Greiner what the cables were, to a certain degree. I did a public Audio Seminar in the early 1980s in Los Angeles, Sutro Auditorium, where Mr. Fulton came in from Minneapolis, and discussed his cables, and audio, at length, answered questions form the public, and we did a speaker demonstration.

Better for this whacky professor to get information direct from Robert, rather than write MIS information and highlight his ignorance and lack of preparation.

We don't need any theory what so ever. I can take ANY member of this Forum, and on MY ALTEC system, in my apartment, I can A-B the difference between each of my amp-to-crossover leads not touching at all, and touching in one, or maybe two spots, going to each channel. It is a 114 1/4 inch run in each case. ANY and ALL would plainly hear it !! And KNOW precisely what way to set it up, what sounds best, at least in "my" listening room, with my gear.

Oh well, your intent may be good, but your post and reference flunks, doesn't cut the mustard. Its laughable to me. Don't be discouraged, keep trying. But maybe you should be listening to things, with your ears, and post from THAT PERSPECTIVE, instead of just reading papers on line with your eyes, and believing its true ????

Jeff Medwin......Low Ohms.

[mah]

Well, the professor had a pair of Fulton's cables, so after testing them he knew that they really weren't particularly special. He didn't say they were necessarily bad, either.

You disparage pretty well anything that disagrees with your view of audio based on 'I can hear it'. Well, get some credibility for your claim by submitting yourself to a COMPREHENSIVE hearing testing by the best Audiologists. Universities would love to verify your claims and it probably wouldn't cost you a penny.
"Ears into their 8th decade outperform teenagers, dogs and bats", I can just see the headline.

Post the results for us all to see. Then you could show your credibility. Unfortunately you seem more comfortable denegrating others to avoid having your claims subjected to scrutiny.


This professor has credibility. You do not. Prove him wrong. Take the test.

[tomt]

Well, the professor had a pair of Fulton's cables, so after testing them he knew that they really weren't particularly special. He didn't say they were necessarily bad, either.

You disparage pretty well anything that disagrees with your view of audio based on 'I can hear it'. Well, get some credibility for your claim by submitting yourself to a COMPREHENSIVE hearing testing by the best Audiologists. Universities would love to verify your claims and it probably wouldn't cost you a penny.
"Ears in their 80th decade outperform teenagers, dogs and bats", I can just see the headline.

Post the results for us all to see. Then you could show your credibility. Unfortunately you seem more comfortable denegrating others to avoid having your claims subjected to scrutiny.


This professor has credibility. You do not. Prove him wrong. Take the test.

Your comments are personal attacks, rather than any thing helpful.

and in quite poor taste.

there was a troll, doing the same, @diyaudio.com.

constantly attacking one person, for the most part.

tho not exclusively.

this had gone on for years,

finally resulting in his being banned.

he was also, a moderator.


which was truly sad, as he was capable of much greater things.